Podcast E39: A Transforming Light in the Darkness
This podcast focuses on hope and the challenging processes people are going through these years. The recent period has been marked by global and personal turbulence, which has forced us to look our dark sides in the eye. However, the guest in the podcast, Mette, believes that there is hope ahead, and that the difficult times are part of a transformation process that will ultimately lead to a better future.
About this AI Deep Dive: This episode features an AI-generated dialogue based 100% on the original teachings of Mette & Sune Sloth. It transforms our core concepts into an engaging conversation for deeper understanding.
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Humanity is splitting into two groups: those who cling to the old and those who embrace change. It is the latter group that possesses hope, as they are open to evolving and thus able to find solutions to the crises the world faces.
Relationships are another central theme in the podcast. These current times create increased tension and dynamics in relationships, and many couples find that they are pressed to confront their own flaws and immaturities. However, Mette emphasizes that it is possible to use these challenges to strengthen the relationship and create a deeper love. This requires courage and honesty, as well as in-depth work with oneself and one's partner.
The podcast also highlights the importance of taking responsibility for one's own life. Listeners are encouraged to focus on the conflicts and disturbances they can control in their own lives, and to avoid wasting energy on global issues that are beyond their reach. It is about creating peace within oneself before one can contribute to peace in the world.
One of Mette's most important points is the difference between empathy and compassion. Empathy can lead to burnout, as one is absorbed by the pain of others, while compassion allows one to see and understand the suffering of others without being overwhelmed.
The hope for the future lies in helping our children develop resilience and antifragility. They must learn to deal with adversity and pain, to make conscious choices, and to take responsibility for their own lives. By supporting them in this process, we can give them the best conditions to navigate in a complex and changing world.
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Hey everyone and welcome back. You know us. We're your AI guides for navigating all sorts of complex topics.
That's right.
And today's a bit special.
Oh, how so?
Well, we got a request from Mete Miriam Sloth and Sune Sloth,
the folks behind the Magdalene Effect podcast.
Exactly. They're hoping to reach a wider audience. You know, English speakers who might not have caught their work yet.
That's great. I know a lot of folks who'd be interested.
And specifically, they asked us to dive into episode 39.
Interesting choice. What's it all about? Well, broadly speaking, it's about hope and transformation.
I think we could all use a bit of that these days,
for sure. But it goes deeper than that. It's about how we navigate a world that just seems to be constantly shifting, you know, and if you want to follow along with the full episode, there's an English transcript on their website, magdaleneffect.org.
Always good to have the source material.
Totally. So, one of the things that really struck me was Soon's description of the past seven years.
Oh, yeah. What do you say?
He calls it intensely challenging, almost like we've been forced through a vertical spiral in a horizontal tunnel at the same time.
Wow, that's some imagery. What does he mean by that?
Well, he's talking about being forced to confront our shadows, the stuff we usually try to avoid.
Makes sense. It does feel like a lot's been coming to the surface lately, both personally and globally.
Absolutely. And he doesn't just leave it at that. He links this period to some pretty tangible struggles,
like what?
Well, he mentions health crisis, relationships falling apart, and those sudden career changes that can really throw you off balance.
Yeah, those are tough. Not to mention, like you said, the global stuff that's always looming.
Exactly. It's a lot to process.
It really is. So, where does hope fit into all of this?
But that's where it gets interesting. Shoot suggests that this pressure cooker of a time is pushing people in two distinct directions.
Two directions. What are they?
He says some folks are moving towards introspection and growth. Really trying to understand themselves and the world better.
That's the hopeful path, right? It is. But he also says some folks are doubling down on outdated beliefs and patterns.
Oh, so kind of retreating inwards instead of opening up
sadly. Yeah. And he actually estimates that 70% of people will fall into that second category.
Wow. 70%. That's a lot. Does he think those patterns will just disappear?
That's what he suggests. He believes they'll eventually die out over the next couple of generations.
Interesting. It does make you wonder if we're witnessing some kind of massive societal shift
or even an evolutionary one. But you know, Metate brings a really important perspective to this conversation.
Yeah. What does she say?
She points out that all of this all this change and upheaval, it's felt most intensely in our personal relationships,
especially romantic ones. I bet
exactly. She says that couples really need to confront their own immaturities and past traumas if they want to survive this period.
Otherwise, those unresolved issues are just going to blow up. Right.
And she's not talking about blame or anything like that.
More like taking responsib ibility for your own stuff.
Exactly. She talks about these unhelpful patterns we fall into like constantly shifting responsibility, blaming our partner, or taking on burdens that aren't ours to carry.
Ooh, yeah. I've been there.
Who hasn't, right? But the thing is, these patterns lead to more breakups, which Med says are becoming increasingly common.
Makes sense. It's tough to stay together when you're both struggling to cope.
Absolutely. But, you know, she makes this really interesting point.
What's that?
Sometimes separating, as painful as it it is can actually be the most loving choice for both partners.
That's a tough one, but I can see how it's true sometimes.
Right. It's about recognizing when a relationship has run its course
and having the courage to move on.
Exactly. So then Soon brings up this idea of inner work.
Oh yeah, that's a popular term these days.
It is. But he gives it real depth. You know, he's not just talking about meditation or journaling. He's talking about honestly examining our own behavior, especially the less than ideal parts.
So looking at our own and shadows just like we were talking about earlier.
Yes. And he argues that doing this inner work is the most effective way to contribute to healing on a global scale.
Wow, that's a big claim. Personal healing leading to global healing.
Right. It's about recognizing that our own inner state contributes to the collective.
So the more peace we cultivate within ourselves, the more peace we bring to the world.
Exactly. It's about taking responsibility instead of just complaining about the state of things.
It's easy to fall into that trap though, blaming everything outside of ourselves for our problems.
It is. And Sunnis actually calls out that tendency to project our own unresolved issues onto world events.
It's easier to get angry about politics than to look at our own shortcomings.
Right? It's a form of avoidance. But he offers a really practical starting point.
What's up?
He calls it focusing on creation projects gone wrong within our own lives.
Creation projects gone wrong. What does he mean by that?
He means those areas where we messed up, made bad choices, or created unnecessary conflict.
Ah, so looking at the messes we've made and figuring out how to clean them up.
Exactly. It's a great way to bring these big ideas down to earth.
It's like, okay, I can't solve climate change today, but I can work on communicating better with my partner.
Precisely. It's about taking responsibility for what we can control.
Speaking of responsibility, Sun goes on to challenge this popular new age idea that we attract everything we experience.
Oh, really? I'm kind of curious to hear his take on that.
Well, he argues that it's an oversimplif ification.
In what way?
Well, he says that this attraction idea can be dangerous if it leads to blaming victims for their suffering.
H yeah, I could see how that could happen.
He reminds us that we live in a complex world with multiple free wills and external factors beyond our control.
It's like, yeah, we have some influence over our lives, but it's not always that simple.
Exactly. He's not saying we have no responsibility, but we also have to acknowledge those situations where we're just in the wrong place at the wrong time. or when we encounter people who are just plain harmful, even if we didn't do anything to attract them.
And that's where things get really tricky, right? How do we reconcile personal responsibility with the reality that some people are just bad?
Yeah. How do we deal with those situations?
Well, Suson's a big advocate for setting boundaries and speaking out against abuse,
which can be incredibly hard, especially if you've been raised to be nice and accommodating.
It is. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for yourself.
But he believes that even small Small acts of courage can have a ripple effect, you know, inspiring others to do the same,
creating a wave of positive change bit by bit.
It's powerful stuff. And this leads to one of my favorite parts of the episode, the discussion about empathy versus compassion.
Oh, yeah. Those are often used interchangeably, but there's a big difference, right?
Huge. Med explains that empathy, where you really feel another person's pain, can actually be debilitating, especially for sensitive people.
Like you absorb other people's emotions and get totally overwhelmed. Exactly. It's exhausting. Compassion, on the other hand, is about recognizing someone's suffering without getting completely swept away by it.
It's about holding space for someone's pain without taking it on as your own.
And she doesn't just say this. She actually brings in Buddhist teachings and modern research to back it up.
Oh wow. So, there's a neurological basis for this difference.
There is. She even says that empathy actually activates the pain centers in our brains while compassion activates areas associated with with love and care.
That's fascinating. So, it's not just a feel-good concept. There's actual science behind it.
Exactly. And she suggests that compassion actually allows us to think more clearly and take more effective action. You know, we can discern when it's appropriate to step in and help and when it's better to protect our own energy.
It's about finding that sweet spot between detachment and overwhelm.
Exactly. And you know, this leads naturally to the concept of anti-fragility, which soon introduces
anti-fragility. What's that?
It's this idea that instead of just being resilient, we can actually become stronger because of the challenges we face.
So, it's not just about bouncing back, it's about actually growing from the experience.
Exactly. Think of it like a muscle. It grows stronger when you push it to its limits.
Okay. I'm starting to get it, but can you give me an example?
Well, think about a bone that heals after a fracture.
Oh, yeah. It actually becomes stronger at the point of the break.
Exactly. That's anti-fragility in action. And soon believes we can cultivate this in our own lives. So instead of just trying to get back to normal after a setback, we actually use those challenges to evolve.
That's the idea. And this leads naturally to the topic of raising kids in today's world,
which can feel pretty daunting given everything we've been talking about.
It is right. How do we prepare kids for a future that feels so uncertain?
And how do we protect them from all the things that can hurt them?
Exactly. Well, Mete and Soon talk about the downsides of trying to shield kids from all the difficulties of modern life
like social media. the cyber bullying and all that stuff.
Exactly. They say that creating this protective bubble might actually make kids more fragile in the long run
because they haven't developed the skills to cope with those challenges.
All right. So, they haven't built up their immunity.
Makes sense. So, what do they suggest instead?
They advocate for teaching kids how to navigate those difficult situations, how to make responsible choices, and how to develop their own inner compass.
So, empowering them to be their own best advocates.
Exactly. And they emphasize the importance of parents modeling those skills in their own lives.
You know, walking the walk instead of just talking the talk
because kids are always watching, right? They learn more from what we do than what we say.
Absolutely. So, that was a whirlwind tour through the first part of this incredibly rich episode.
I know, right? It's a lot to take in, but there's so much more to explore.
I'm ready for more.
Me, too. But before we dive into part two, we want to give you a chance to digest all of this.
Yeah. Take a moment to let it all sink in.
What resonated with you most from this first part of the conversation? What questions are bubbling up for you? Let us know.
We'd love to hear your thoughts. It really is a lot to think about all this stuff about personal growth and how it ties into the bigger picture.
It makes you wonder, right? Are we constantly transforming or is there like an end point to it all?
Right. Like do we ever actually arrive?
Yeah. It it feels like we're always working on ourselves, facing one challenge after another. Is there ever a moment we can just say, "Okay, Okay, I'm done. I've reached peak evolution.
Uh-huh. Right. Mate actually talks about this. She says that while life is, you know, inherently dynamic, always changing, it is possible to feel like we've resolved certain issues.
Okay. So, like we can find closure with specific things.
Exactly. It's like reaching a point where a particular challenge doesn't have that same emotional charge anymore.
It doesn't trigger you in the same way.
Yeah. Like maybe you finally made peace with that annoying habit your partner has, or you've overcome a fear. that's been holding you back.
I love that. But, you know, as soon as you overcome one thing, another one pops up.
Ah, the classic whack-a-ole of personal growth.
Exactly. It can feel like you're never really done. Always striving for something.
It can be a bit discouraging, that's for sure. But Metate has some good advice here.
Oh, yeah. What's that?
She says we should focus on celebrating the progress we have made, acknowledge those challenges we've overcome, and recognize our own capacity for growth.
So, it's about appreciating how far you've come. even if you're not where you want to be yet.
Right. Remember where you were a few months or years ago and recognize the positive shifts you've made.
So, it's about focusing on those little wins along the way.
Exactly. Helps to keep you motivated, you know, especially when things get tough. And speaking of tough, soon chimes in with a really important point about discernment.
Ooh, discernment. I like that word. What does he say about it?
Well, he says it's about learning to distinguish between what's our responsibility to address and what's not.
Okay, that's huge because it's so easy to get caught up in all the chaos and suffering in the world and feel like we have to fix everything,
right? Like where do we even begin?
Exactly.
Soon cautions against taking on burdens that aren't ours to carry.
It's about recognizing our limitations.
Yeah. And focusing our energy where we can make a real difference.
He uses the example of global conflicts, right?
He does. Acknowledging their significance, but asking whether our energy is best spent trying to solve those massive problems or addressing the conflicts in our own lives.
I mean, it's like that saying, think globally, act locally.
Exactly. Instead of agonizing over a war on the other side of the world, maybe focus on mending that broken relationship with a family member.
That hits closer to home for sure.
He argues that contributing to peace and harmony in our immediate relationships is a far more effective way to create positive change in the world.
It's like that ripple effect, right?
Starts small and spreads outwards,
right? And attempting to resolve global conflicts when our own personal lives are in turmoil can actually make things worse.
It's like trying to put out a fire in someone else's house when your own is burning down.
Exactly. Plus, remember that tendencies Tune mentioned earlier, projecting our own unresolved issues onto world events.
Yeah, it's so easy to do.
He points out that this can actually be a form of avoidance, you know, preventing us from taking responsibility for our own growth and healing.
So, it's about getting our own house in order before we try to fix everyone else's.
Precisely. He even describes these personal conflicts energetically. as tangled knots of frequencies.
That's a cool image. Like each conflict is its own little energetic knot.
Yeah. And by helping individuals find peace within themselves and their relationships, we're essentially untangling those knots
and contributing to a greater sense of harmony. I like that.
It's a beautiful idea, isn't it?
It really is. So inner work becomes a form of activism basically.
That's how soon sees it. It's about contributing to a collective shift towards peace and understanding.
It's not about withdrawing from the world. It's about about transforming it from the inside out.
Exactly. Remember, he encourages listeners to identify those creation projects gone wrong in their own lives and to focus their energy on resolving those personal conflicts,
taking responsibility for the messes we've made,
right? But then there's that tension with what he said earlier, you know, challenging that idea that we attract everything we experience.
Yeah. It's like how much responsibility do we actually have if it's not all about what we're attracting?
It's about finding that nuanced balance between personal accountability and the very real impact of external factors. You know,
it's not always black and white.
He acknowledges that there are individuals who engage in harmful behavior.
So, sometimes it's not our fault, it's just bad luck.
Well, he cautions against blaming ourselves for the actions of others. You know, reminding us that we don't exist in a vacuum and that external factors play a significant role in our experiences.
It's not about letting people off the hook, but it is about recognizing that we don't always have control.
He encourages us to examine our own experiences of victimization and abuse
to see if maybe we've been blaming ourselves unnecessarily.
Yeah. Recognizing that sometimes it's not about attracting negativity, but about encountering genuinely harmful individuals and dynamics. And in those situations, he really emphasizes the importance of setting boundaries
and speaking out against abuse, which could be so difficult.
It can. It takes a lot of courage to stand up for yourself, especially if you've been conditioned to be nice and accommodating. But it's essential, right? Not just for our own well-being, but for the well-being of others, too.
He believes that by doing so, we not only protect ourselves, but also contribute to a shift in collective consciousness,
like inspiring others to do the same.
Exactly. Creating that ripple effect we were talking about earlier.
Small acts of courage leading to big changes,
right? And speaking of courage, remember that distinction between empathy and compassion we touched on earlier?
Oh yeah, that was a good one.
Meta and Sunun dive deeper into this and emphasizing that they're often used interchangeably, but there's a crucial difference
and understanding this difference is so important, especially in a world that feels so overwhelming at times.
Absolutely. So, Mate explains that empathy, you know, where you really feel another person's pain can be debilitating, especially for sensitive individuals,
like it can lead to burnout, right?
Especially for people in caregiving roles like therapists or nurses, anyone who deals with other people's trauma on a regular basis, it's easy easy to get sucked into that vortex of pain.
It's like you become an emotional sponge.
Compassion, on the other hand, allows us to recognize and acknowledge another person's suffering without becoming consumed by it.
So, it's about witnessing their pain without taking it on as your own.
Exactly. You can offer support and understanding without losing yourself in the process.
And me doesn't just talk about this theoretically. She actually cites research.
Oh, really? What kind of research?
She says that empathy activates the pain center. in our brains. While compassion activates areas associated with love and care.
Wow. So, there's a neurological basis for this. It's not just a woowoo concept.
It's backed by science.
That's fascinating. What else does she say about compassion?
Well, she suggests that it allows us to maintain clearer boundaries so we can make more conscious choices about when and how to engage with others pain. It's about protecting yourself so you can actually be helpful.
That's a great way to put it. You know, finding that balance between caring and protecting your own. and well-being.
Exactly. And Sunny Gate jumps in here to emphasize the importance of discernment in determining where to focus our energy and compassion because we can't help everyone. Right.
Right. We have to be selective.
So, how do we decide where to focus our efforts?
He suggests asking ourselves, can I actually contribute to a solution here? Is this really my responsibility to address?
I love that question. It's so empowering.
It's about choosing your battles wisely and focusing on the areas where you can make the most impact. So, circling back to that concept of anti-fragility, how does compassion play into that?
That's a great question. Metate brings it up again, framing it as a powerful way to approach challenges and setbacks.
Okay, remind me what's anti-fragility again.
It's about moving beyond just being resilient. Remember, we can actually become stronger from the challenges we face.
It's about embracing discomfort and seeing those obstacles as opportunities for growth.
Instead of just trying to survive, we actually thrive in the face of adversity.
It's a total mindset shift.
He emphasized is stepping outside our comfort zones, taking risks, and learning from our experiences.
Even the tough ones,
especially the tough ones. It's about shifting from a mindset of fear and avoidance to one of curiosity and possibility.
Instead of asking, "How do I avoid this?" You ask, "What can I learn from this?"
Exactly. And this leads them to a topic that's particularly relevant for a lot of us. Raising children in a world that feels increasingly complex and unpredictable.
Yeah. That can feel pretty overwhelming these days. The stakes feel higher than ever, don't they?
They do. So, what do Met and Sun Soon have to say about raising kids in this kind of world?
Well, they caution against overprotecting children, suggesting that it can actually lead to fragility and a lack of resilience,
like trying to shield them from every potential harm can backfire.
Exactly. It's that bubble wrapping mentality.
They advocate for teaching children how to navigate difficult situations, how to make responsible choices, and how to develop their own inner compass.
So, empowering them to be be independent thinkers and not just obedient rule followers,
right? Because ultimately we can't control the world for them.
And they emphasize the importance of parents modeling those skills, healthy boundaries, discernment, you know, in our own lives, allowing children to learn through observation.
It's about showing them how it's done.
And then in a moment of vulnerability, Mete and Soon share their own experiences of navigating challenges and setbacks in their relationship.
I love when they do that. It makes them feel so relatable,
right? They highlight the importance of open communication,
being willing to talk about the tough stuff,
and a commitment to working through conflicts together.
It's about being relationally intelligent, knowing how to communicate effectively and work as a team.
They acknowledge that it's not always easy, but emphasize the rewards of creating a relationship based on trust and vulnerability.
It's about choosing to grow together rather than apart.
Beautifully said. And before we move on to the final part of this episode, I think it's important to remember what Mete and soon said earlier about celebrating our wins,
taking a moment to appreciate how far we've come.
Exactly. It's easy to get overwhelmed by all the things we still need to work on, but it's equally important to acknowledge our progress.
So, before we dive into the last part of this episode, take some time to reflect on your own journey.
Where have you grown? What challenges have you turned into opportunities?
You know, it's amazing how much they pack into just one episode. But before we wrap things up completely, Mate and Sun Soon bring up one more thing. It really stuck with me.
Oh, what's that?
It's about Steiner education. Have you heard of it?
I have. It's that alternative approach that really focuses on creativity and imagination. Right.
Yeah. And a strong connection to nature. It sounds pretty idyllic, actually.
It does. So, what's their take on it?
Well, they wonder if this approach, while super nurturing, might not fully prepare kids for the, let's say, less gentle realities of the world today.
H, I can see that. It's like you can't protect them from everything forever. Exactly. And they make this really interesting comparison. They talk about how European explorers introduced diseases to indigenous populations.
Oh wow. Yeah. And those populations had no immunity. It was devastating.
Right. And mente and soon suggest it's kind of similar for kids raised in overly sheltered environments. They might struggle to cope with the challenges of the digital age.
Cyber bullying, exposure to well, inappropriate content, all of that.
It's a harsh analogy, but it makes you think.
It does. It's like We can't keep kids in a bubble forever, no matter how much we want to.
And trying to might actually do more harm than good.
So, where do we find that balance? How do we prepare them without robbing them of their innocence?
That's the million-dollar question, right?
It is.
Well, they use the example of kids being excluded or bullied at school. And I think their advice here is really valuable.
What do they say?
They suggest that instead of immediately jumping in, parents should guide their kids to figure out if it's their responsibility to address the situation. Oh, that's interesting. So, teaching them to assess the situation and decide whether to engage or walk away.
Yeah. And they acknowledge that bullying is serious and needs to be addressed, but they also emphasize the value of teaching kids to navigate social dynamics,
giving them the tools to handle those tricky situations on their own,
empowering them to be active participants in their lives.
I like that. Instead of just being passive recipients of whatever happens to them,
right? And they caution against always imposing adult solutions on kids. problems.
It's tempting, but sometimes it's better to let them figure it out on their own.
It is hard as it might be. But they believe that these experiences, even the tough ones, are how kids develop resilience.
They learn to set boundaries and discover their own inner strength.
It's like that saying, smooth seas don't make skillful sailors.
Love that.
Me, too.
So, it's about guiding them, not controlling them.
Exactly. Giving them the tools to navigate the world, not trying to create a world without any obstacles.
And, you know, as they wrap up the episode, episode, Mate and Sunn talk about the importance of hope, especially in these times.
Hope for the future. Yeah.
They suggest that part of that hope comes from seeing our kids develop the capacity to handle challenges and make their own choices.
It's about trusting the next generation,
believing that they have the strength and wisdom to create a better world.
It's a beautiful thought, isn't it?
It is. And that brings us to the end of our deep dive into episode 39 of the Magdalene Effect. What a journey. We covered so much. personal transformation, global change, the power of inner work, compassion, boundaries, anti-fragility.
My brain's definitely full. There's a lot to take in, but I feel so inspired.
Me, too. There's so much to think about and apply to our own lives.
And this was just a taste of what Med and Soon have to offer. So, if you're intrigued, we highly recommend checking out the full episode and the transcript over at magdaleneffect.org.
Definitely worth a listen.
Absolutely.
And before we go, we'd love to leave you with a few questions to ponder.
Okay. Hit us with them.
How could you cultivate greater compassion and antifragility in your own life? How could you apply these insights to your relationships, your work, your parenting, all those creation projects that are always in progress? And how can we support the next generation in developing the inner strength they'll need to navigate this increasingly complex world? These are big questions and we believe the answers lie within each of us. So, keep exploring, keep questioning, and until next time, happy deep diving.